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Author Topic:   Thoughts on September 11, 2001
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 09-17-2001 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This week the world will try as best it can to return to some sense of normalcy, and the Not News team plans to contribute to that effort by resuming normal posting and updating later on Monday, September 17. Before we do, we wanted to provide a place to remember the events of September 11 and to share our thoughts on the tragedy, and to invite everyone to do the same.

[This page is now linked to by the September Special Order Speeches update, our tribute to the victims and heroes of September 11.]

[This message has been edited by Dave Thomer (edited 10-14-2001).]

Pattie Gillett
True Believer
posted 09-17-2001 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pattie Gillett   Click Here to Email Pattie Gillett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What We Owe Our Children

In comparison to many of those around me, I find that I am not consumed with rage or thoughts of revenge. Of course, this is not to say that the events of September 11, 2001 have not angered me. However, I find myself more consumed with fear than any other emotion. I fear for the people who have lived the past week in agony, waiting for news about their loved ones who were in New York City or Washington, D.C. I fear for the families that I know whose loved ones are in the armed forces because I know that for them, the worst may be still ahead. I fear for the Arab Americans who face verbal and physical assaults from misguided individuals seeking revenge. I fear that our leaders may make decisions seeking that same revenge rather than acting in pursuit of justice or peace.

Most of all (perhaps because these attacks come at a time when I am more sensitive to these thoughts than ever before) I fear for our children. In the past week, I've heard countless psychologists and specialists say that we should explain these events honestly and rationally to our children. Part of me wants to ignore their advice. No one, be they eight or ninety-eight, can watch the footage of the Trade Center Towers collapsing and say they understand. How can a child, whose few years have included fictionalized images of buildings exploding and volcanoes consuming cites, grasp the enormity of these events? So much is made of how "fake" violence affects American children that when faced with the question of what the real things will do we don't even know where to begin. I now find myself longing for a time, not so long ago, when a keeping a violent video game or movie away from a child was our biggest concern.

I was a complacent person. As an American, I took for granted that my child would be born in a country at peace. That is now uncertain. Most mothers-to-be pray for healthy babies and I thought that I would have traded anything in the world to have only that. I have now selfishly added, "not born during a war" to that wish, even though I know that many mothers outside my country never get that wish. As a rational person, I know I do not deserve to get my wish any more than any other mother in the world. As an American, though, I still cling to the notions of "here" and "over there" that I had before last Tuesday.

Many have found some small relief in donating blood and money to the relief effort. Both are worthwhile actions and we owe it to the victims and their families to continue both activities long after the initial shock subsides. But we owe our children some enduring lessons, as well:

· We must not let our revenge consume us at the expense of tolerance and respect for our fellow Americans, no matter what religion or ethnic origin. These tragic events were acts of hate and responding with hate only furthers the attackers' cause.

· We should work hard to keep the channels of communication open to those countries with whom we have not shared common ground but who now have a common enemy in terrorism.

· We should pressure or leaders to base their decisions on ending all acts of terror, not simply avenging these acts. In addition, we must remember to use the military power we do have prudently. Unleashing acts of aggression against large civilian populations may be within our power however, we just condemned such acts against our own civilians. We should learn from history that the power to do something is not the same as the right to do it.

· At the end of this conflict, wherever it takes us and however long it takes, there should be new and better things - new alliances, new agreements, new protections against terror - that our children will know grew out of this period in time. As much as part of us may want to hide this stark reality from our children, we cannot. So the best we can hope for is that they will be able to say "Yes, these things happened, but they never happened again."

[This message has been edited by Pattie Gillett (edited 09-17-2001).]

Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 09-17-2001 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Best Revenge: A World Without Hate

On September 11, we learned the depths of cruelty and violence that human beings can inflict upon each other. There is a hole in all our hearts right now, and for those that lost loved ones because of these senseless acts, it is a hole that will never truly heal. It's easy to understand the rage that fills us, threatens to consume us. We want the people who did this to pay. We want the people who helped them to pay. We want anyone who might so much as even think of doing this in the future to understand that we will not stand for it. I have faith that the world's leaders, soldiers and law enforcement officials will do everything in their power to make that happen. But for many of us, justice is not enough; it can never be enough. We want vengeance.

And that is perhaps the cruelest part of this crime against humanity. When the criminals do not fear death - when the criminals welcome death - what penalty on this earth can dissuade them, can make them hurt the way we hurt? There is none. We can take solace in the notion that while these criminals committed their acts in a blind and twisted devotion to their god, their act is tantamount to a rejection of any kind and loving god, such that their victims will enter paradise long before they do. Still, it is not enough. I do not want to leave this in the hands of any god, just as he or she may be. I want vengeance on this earth, in this life. And I will have it.

I will have revenge on those who would destroy by helping to build anew.

I will have revenge on those who would spread hate by embracing my brothers and sisters who are different from me.

I will have revenge on those who would deny us freedom by fighting harder for liberty.

I will have revenge on those who would have us live by cruelty by showing kindness.

I will have revenge on those who would commit violence by working harder for peace.

I will have revenge on those who would sow fear by living life with joy.

I will have revenge on those who would plunge the world into barbarism by leaving my children a world that was better than when I found it, and by teaching them to do the same.

These terrorists attacked more than a group of buildings; they attacked a way of life, and sought to destroy a set of ideals. It is too late to defend the buildings or the lives lost in their destruction, but we have before us the chance to defend that which they most sought to destroy. We must seize that chance. We must build a world where children do not live in fear of airplanes, where parents do not dread the morning news. We must build a world where that which sets us apart does not tear us apart. In doing so, we will create exactly the world the terrorists most feared and loathed. We will deny them victory. We will have our revenge.

And this vengeance will truly be sweet.

Kevin Ott
True Believer
posted 09-17-2001 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Ott   Click Here to Email Kevin Ott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What We Do

On December 31, 1999, I was racing to my office at ten seconds before midnight, hoping to make it back in time to see the ball drop on the newsroom TV and trying to forget that I was actually on the clock during the biggest party in the world.

A few months later, I was in bare feet, having a water fight with friends, waiting for the grill to heat up so we could have hamburgers.

In April of this year I was agonizing over my career at a journalism conference full of self-satisfaction and back-patting.

At 11 p.m. on September 10, I was sitting in a pottery studio talking to a former girlfriend, wondering at the front of my mind why I ever let her go and at the back of my mind whether I had any reasonable shot at sleeping with her that night.

While I was doing all these things, there were angry, angry men somewhere in the world, plotting to kill thousands of people less then a few hours from my house. And as I shot my water pistols and quit my job and talked my sweet talk, I was completely oblivious to this. So were you.

To tell the truth, I'm still afraid. Even as I balloon with pride at the rescue workers in Manhattan, even as I raid the stores for bottled water and saline solution and canine ear wash to send, even as my eyes tear up at the pictures of foreign nations offering their support, in the background I'm a little afraid.

Sometimes, in my less rational moments, the fear creates anger. I want to strike back at the people who did this, want my nation to annihilate with no mercy whoever is responsible. I want to see fused glass where there once was sand. I want to thwart hijackers armed with my fists and a pot of scalding hot airplane coffee. I want to be Bruce Willis. I want to be Superman. I want it to be Clobberin' Time.

But no. No.

I won't be afraid. I will be rational. I will give no one the satisfaction of my fear.

We will not fear. We will act, and we will save, and we will thwart.

Most of all, we will rebuild. We will rebuild our faith in our ability to fly from Newark to Los Angeles. We will rebuild our confidence in standing at the top of the Sears Tower in Chicago or the Prudential Tower in Boston or the TransAmerica pyramid in San Francisco. We will rebuild our contentment in going outside or going to work or going across the country with the belief that our safety is assured.

And we will rebuild New York City. Our architectural bombast will fly in the face of the men that did this. Whether it looks the same or drastically different, we will have our New York.

And most importantly, we will not do this out of vengeance. We will do it because it is what we do. It is what Americans do. It is what humans do.

The people that have marked the landscapes of Washington and New York and Pennsylvania meant to destroy our security by wounding us financially and militarily. They did not. Listen up, terrorists: You're trying to kill something that's unstoppable. If you wiped every major city off the face of America, we would still be here. We would not fear you or your quasi-religious rhetoric.

And we would stare you down.

slgorman
One of the Regulars
posted 09-17-2001 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slgorman   Click Here to Email slgorman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For historical perspective on my feelings this last week you may want to start here. And now for the incoherent rambling....

My thoughts on this tragedy...are so muddled right now. I don't think I'm up to examining them too closely, they are so raw and bloody and painful. I do know this, vengence is not justice. Justice is what I want, what I need. Not crazy-ass retaliation whose purpose is to increase the madness unleashed in this country and further divide the human race. But justice for the wrongs done against innocent people.

I didn't own a flag until this week. I'm utterly ashamed to admit that. I promise not to take for granted the extreme luck I've had being born a citizen of this great nation. Not today, not tomorrow, never again.

I went to church a lot this week. And while it was probably the only place I actually felt somewhat at peace in, it frightened me. All the young male faces I saw, are they going to have to fight and die? Most likely. All the young families with small children, and how worried those parents looked. I've never seen our church so full, so many people who have nowhere to turn. Desparate for reassurance and hope.

I don't know what made me cry worse, this or this or this.

To all those internet nay-sayers, please stick it. Your claims that the internet cannot provide "community" be damned. What I've seen this week has been an incredible outpouring of support, love, and raw emotion. I've spend the better part of the week reading bulletin boards and feeling connected--to friends I've never met, to people in pain, to the rest of the world. So please. Shut. Up.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to try to make the deaths of my fellow humans mean something by changing. I can't pinpoint exactly what changes I'm going to make, but I can feel them brewing under the surface. I'm not the same person I was before I turned on the radio on my way to work Tuesday, September 11, 2001. No one is.

[NYC and DC not-newsers, please check in and let everyone know how you're doing. I've been worried about some of you all week.]

Stephanie
One of the Regulars
posted 09-17-2001 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephanie   Click Here to Email Stephanie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My thoughts and feelings are completely scrambled right now. While some rational part of my brain is saying the horrible terrorist action taken against our country last week cannot be made right by forging ahead with a violent campaign, the part of me that feels, that doesn't separate feelings and ideas, screams that justice will be served by bombing and annihilating these people.
I know everyone's heard the Pearl Harbor anology and the main differences between the two. But this situation is worse. You had a military action against a military base in 1941. Almost noble when you compare the actions of these men. We've also had twice as many casualties. How can action (not justice with a long, drawn out court procedure with jail time and a death sentence) not be called on when we entered a war over what had been the greatest attack on US land by a foreign nation at the time?

Those are my ramblings above and I'm still sorting through the emotions. I know this war, or any other, won't be pretty. One other slightly petty remark I have with sl's comments. You stated that you looked at the boys and wondered if they would be called to war. I've been doing the same thing all week, too, but if this does become war and it will be nasty, I'm afraid that women, too, will be called upon to fight for our country. Israel does it. We may not be serving on the front lines, but who's to stop the call?

As for the atmosphere in New York. We're getting better. The rumors are true, people are making eye contact and smiling at each other-complete strangers! Last Thursday and Friday, not so good, but people are out, they're shopping, walking everywhere and when you look south you can still see the smoke that's not completely gone. Below 20th St, every wall, every pole is covered in a flyer with the picture of someone missing. You get a glimpse into what was their lives. You see their job, age, height, what jewelry they might have been wearing, which floor they were on. A picture of a handsome man and pretty woman on a ski holiday. The flyer has a woman's name to contact should you have any information about him. It all hurts. So many of them were just out of college, or in their mid-thirties.

I was in Union Square last night and while I wish I wasn't there I'm glad my roommate and her friend wanted to be there. My own personal feelings regarding this is that this memorial, the thousands of candles, and signs belong to the families and friends of the people who perished and are missing. I'm fortunate in that I don't have anyone close to me who was there. Only friends of friends and those few stories I hear, the people got out alive, thank God. It's not my place to be at that memorial. Despite these feelings and the uncomfortableness I felt, I saw New Yorkers pulling together. Everyone who sees firefighters and police officers smiles at them, thanking them for the sacrifices they have made. People are singing, some dancing, candles are everywhere. It is a good thing. What we can't let happen is for people to forget. I don't mean the attack. That is seared on our hearts forever. We can't forget that we have pulled together as a People. Skin color, religion, ethnicity, none of it mattered last night. I heard people speaking Spanish and Italian last night. I saw African-americans and the Buddhist monk reading the same passages that people wrote to the victims.

I believe I've rambled enough. If there are mistakes I apologize I'm too tired to go back and check!

slgorman
One of the Regulars
posted 09-17-2001 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slgorman   Click Here to Email slgorman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clarifications: Steph, I didn't mean just boys. I should have clarified that. My site administration at work was career Army and is subject to call up as she's still in reserves. My best friend from college, a woman, was nearly called-up during the Gulf War and will likely be on a potential call-up this time as well. Additionally, my sense of justice includes a just war (which I think is absoultely called for) and action. Just action, however, not just carpet bombing to vent our rage.

Glad to hear you're OK. I was thinking about you this week.

Stephanie
One of the Regulars
posted 09-17-2001 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephanie   Click Here to Email Stephanie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, in terms of the women being called, my roommate and her friend didn't even realize that was a possibility last night and it seems hard to know what people mean when they're calling for justice. I think our versions are roughly the same. But to others, pundits and talk radio callers, justice is something equivilent to what the 1993 WTC bombers got. That's not justice here. Also, I needed to vent. Thanks for letting me.

Kevin Ott
True Believer
posted 09-17-2001 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Ott   Click Here to Email Kevin Ott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you guys are concerned at all about a draft happening... well, I wouldn't sweat it just yet. The Army itself has about a million people ready for active duty, and the entire armed forces combined are capable of taking on an enemy the size of Russia or China, so I'm not too worried at this point.

But I'd be lying if I said it wasn't in the back of my mind. I mean, it's more likely today than it was last month that I could go to war. That's a scary thought, and it has a way of gripping the mind.

I'm pretty sure I'm not ready to die for my country yet. Right now, I'm too happy to be living for it.

slgorman
One of the Regulars
posted 09-17-2001 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slgorman   Click Here to Email slgorman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stephanie, word.

While I think prosecution and financial tracking would be helpful adjuncts, I still think some type of military action is within our rights. I get worried when people start comparing this "war on terrorism" to the "war on drugs." Because we all know how well that's working. [In my own defense, I do understand certain similarities between the two. I also see gaping differences as well.]

As for the venting...well, who hasn't needed that. A few minutes ago a friend called. She teaches class after me tonight and usually (for the past four weeks or so) we get dinner after her class is done. I was *so* glad she still wanted to go out tonight. I don't know how well I'll handle it, but the thought of doing something routine or normal is reassuring.

Kevin, who needs to worry about the draft with military recruiters doing a booming business? Not that I'm anti-military, but the thought of war scares me. My husband said he'd join up if they needed him and they'd have him. Just said it at the dinner table out of the blue last night while we ate Mexican food.

[This message has been edited by slgorman (edited 09-17-2001).]

Jen
Just Got Here
posted 09-17-2001 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jen   Click Here to Email Jen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think in some ways I have a unique outlook on the events of 9/11. I was born in Queens and lived there for 18 years and 3 summers afterwards. I have spent the better part of 7 years living in the DC area, the last 3 and 1/2 about a mile away from the Pentagon. The airport I would leave DC from is now closed and might never open again and the view that would welcome back home to NY is forever changed. The plane that crashed into the Pentagon more than likely took a route directly over my work and almost defintly over my apartment. In those first few hours after the attack I had to contact a friend in the defense industry to see if it was safe for me to go home or if I would even be allowed back in. Since then I have listened to the sirens race to the Pentagon knowing there was a new development before the news reported it. I was awoken in the middle of the night by the sound of helicopters which appeared to have taken the bodies to Dover. I have seen a list of missing firefighters and seen a name I know, someone whose family mine has known for longer then I have been alive. This feels very personal.

I do want justice. I think all the innocent people whose lives were lost deserve justice. Their families and our country deserves justice, but I don't know how much justice we will get from starting a war.

I think justice will come also from showing them they might have destroyed our buildings, but they have not destroyed our spirits and our hearts. That no matter how much hatred you direct to us, we will find more love and kindness. That despite their effort to break us, we will only grow stronger. Their targets were more then buildings and the people in them, but it was our country as a whole by scaring us, by wanting us to stop living our lives the way we do. Justice comes by showing them we will make the necessary changes, but we will not stop living.

There is no question that this will be one of those things where people say "where were you when". I will never shake the feeling I felt when I realized that when the first plane struck the tower, I was standing in George Washington's study at Mount Vernon looking at many of the items from his days as the leader of the revoluntionary arm and as President. Here I was standing at a place where freedom for America was created when that freedom was attacked. All I can think about is if they could face all the challenges and still create the country we know and love today, with all the we got going for us how could not only surive this tragedy but also come out stronger.

[This message has been edited by Jen (edited 09-17-2001).]

Pattie Gillett
True Believer
posted 09-18-2001 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pattie Gillett   Click Here to Email Pattie Gillett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the comments, guys.

And welcome, Jen. We are always happy to have new people to share their thoughts, particularly someone with insights as unique as yours, given where you have lived and worked.

Geographically, I am a Philadelphian but in spirit (and some say in attitude) I will always be a New Yorker. It has been very hard for me to try to resume my normal activities and I'm 100 miles away. I can only imagine how hard it is to try to move on when the reminders are literally on your horizon.

I have to say that baseball truly rose to the occasion in its role of "national pastime" last night. From the Mets wearing the NYPD and NYFD hats to the ceremonies in St. Louis and elsewhere, the players and team owners deserve our thanks for giving us a little diversion while still being respectful of the events.

Check out the photo galleries and stories at CNNSI for more info.

Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 09-25-2001 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've said it before and I'll say it again -- those Mets have made it impossible for me to hate them anymore. They are a bunch of class acts.

That a Philadelphian is saying this is one more piece of evidence that the World Has Turned Upside Down. All sorts of little rules and customs that I thought I could count on are going out the window. Like I said the night all this happened, when George Pataki is the voice of reason in the world -- and along with Giuliani, he was that night; those two men defined rising to the occasion -- Nothing Is The Same Anymore.

I'll stop speaking in capital letters now.

slgorman
One of the Regulars
posted 09-26-2001 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for slgorman   Click Here to Email slgorman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave, hee hee. I actually praised the Oakland Raiders a day or two after the attacks on some other bulletin board. In one sense it was nice to praise them (they had taken the day to clean up a park for kids or some other such activity the day after the attacks in lieu of practice). Yet, I'm a 49ers fan so it also seemed so very, very wrong at the same time.

Every time I spend money, I keep saying to myself, "It's ok. It's your patriotic duty to help the economy." Talk about rationalization.

A really good friend from undergrad called me last night, and we had the best talk. Until 1 am. I've decided to try to call one person I haven't talked to in an obscene amount of time to keep in touch each week. Just to let them know I still cherish our friendship and such. Life is too damn short.

I feel so old. With my promotion at work, the other faculty members (currently, all part-timers) work for me. One of them lost a cousin in the WTC and I had to get a condolance card for the faculty, staff, and students to sign. I didn't think I, or my staff, was old enough to have to deal with something of this magnitude.

I know I'm going to DC in the next month for a meeting that was cancelled last week. I'm glad. I also am trying to find a friend to go to NYC with me shortly after Christmas. I mean, what else can I do to help? So I'll visit and spend some money there.

I've had to nearly boycott the news and become a workaholic. I'm the very picture of sensory and information overload right now.

[Edited because the world has not changed so much as to allow me to type or spell anywhere near normal.]

[This message has been edited by slgorman (edited 09-26-2001).]

Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 09-27-2001 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You should give us a holler when you hit the East Coast, sl.

Pattie and I are probably going up to the Bronx this weekend for Fordham homecoming. That is going to be one weird train ride, I'm sure. I don't really know how I'm going to handle it, but it'll feel good to feel like part of the city again for a little while.

Kevin Ott
True Believer
posted 09-27-2001 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Ott   Click Here to Email Kevin Ott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is anyone else having trouble getting to sleep over this?

I dunno what it is about it -- maybe the notion that something so big, so ever-presently there, could be gone so fast. Maybe it's the fact that so many people are gone, and they still haven't found a remarkable fraction of the bodies yet.

There's something intangible about all this, which makes it even worse than what we can put into words.

slgorman
One of the Regulars
posted 09-27-2001 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for slgorman   Click Here to Email slgorman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've gotten so used to the lack of sleep thing. It was the first "symptom" of my discomfort with these events. And it's still hanging around, increasing my caffeine intake, making me cranky at times, and wearing me down bit by bit. I morphed it into my "media obsession" habit intially (i.e., staying up late watching any and all news), but now that I'm boycotting most media coverage I'm just working really late and bring too much work home with me. Because there's nothing like replacing fear and anxiety with over-work. God, I'm so messed up.

Earl Green
True Believer
posted 09-28-2001 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Earl Green   Click Here to Email Earl Green     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kevin, the lack of sleep has been my one defining after-effect from this. Since it's my job to edit together video montages of exploding planes and crumbling buildings set against a backdrop of melancholy music, I've gotten to see this stuff happen over and OVER again more than most of the viewers for whom I'm ostensibly putting it together.

It's hard to sleep when you've seen several thousand people die repeatedly from 16 different camera angles. Harder still when a war will probably come from all this, and when you have as many friends serving in the armed forces as I do. Add to that a wait of more than two weeks before everyone you know in NYC finally checks in, and the fact that we live really close to the airport and every incoming or departing plane now makes me sit bolt upright from being dead asleep...

Yeah, I've been losing sleep.

Fortunately, it was announced today that our company health plan is going to pay for us to get grief and/or coping counseling if we need it.

And I'm starting to think I need it.

Pattie Gillett
True Believer
posted 11-08-2001 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pattie Gillett   Click Here to Email Pattie Gillett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thought I would mention that I will be flying for the first time since September 11 tomorrow with my mother and my older sister. It's a trip that we scheduled several months ago. We saw no reason to cancel although Mom had some doubts early on.

Has anyone else flown since 9/11?

Pattie Gillett
True Believer
posted 11-26-2001 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pattie Gillett   Click Here to Email Pattie Gillett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My trip, at least the plane ride, was thankfully uneventful. I applaud the patience of most travellers, who seemed almost eager to submit to searches and long lines. I did arrive at the airport two hours early, expecting long lines and ended up spending an hour and forty-five minutes waiting by my gate because I made it through all the checkpoints fairly quickly.

I did feel safe though I have always liked flying - people who hated flying before September 11 might have had a harder time.

In looking at the various modes of transport people used to get around this past weekend, I have to think that it's a shame so many people have abandoned the airlines. At this point, are they really any less safe than the highways or Amtrak?

Earl Green
True Believer
posted 11-26-2001 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Earl Green   Click Here to Email Earl Green     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Personally, I like flying, though I just seldom have a reason or the means to just get on a plane and go somewhere. If the need arose, I don't think I'd be too skittish about it now.

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