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Author Topic:   Let the Light In (July 2001)
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 08-27-2001 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The July Special Order Speeches update is now online.

Kevin Ott
True Believer
posted 08-27-2001 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin Ott   Click Here to Email Kevin Ott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm curious to learn more about Brin's zones of privacy. It seems to me that when most people concern themselves with online privacy, what they're really concerned about is being taken advantage of financially.

There was a page on the Brunching Shuttlecocks comedy website a few months ago that generated a Mr. T name for users, which asked for different pieces of information to be typed into fields. The joke was that no matter what you typed into the fields, your Mr. T name came up as "Sucka." Now, Shuttlecock humor is generally aimed at an audience that's moderately web-savvy and grounded in modern popular culture. But because one of the fields asked for the user's social security number, the site was flooded with emails berating the creators for asking for such a vital piece of information. Some of these emails accused the creators of intending to use the information to take advantage of people. (The 'cocks responded by explaining that none of the information was recorded, and that you could type in "Secretariat" or "Froot Loops" or "Nov. 22, 1963" in the SSN field and still get the same results from the generator.)

As a former journalist (or, at the very least, someone doing a very good job of pretending to be a journalist) I have a lot of appreciation for the exchange of free information; I spent more than enough time on the phone with PR hacks trying to get a nugget of real information. If not for sources of free information, I never would have discovered the local man who donated a quarter million dollars in soft money to the George W. Bush campaign, and I never would have found the speed traps set by police around my home. I got the first piece of information from "official" sources; I got the second from a more informal source, but one that was no less useful to myself or my readers. So I can get behind such methods of documenting public information, even if it means a few people get embarrassed or are inconvenienced for the greater good.

But where should it stop? Should it stop at all? Do I want everyone to have access to a list of the websites I visit each week? Really, it's not an idea I'm nuts about, since there are some aspects of my personality that, while I'm not embarrassed by them, I'd rather not advertise. But I'm sure there are plenty of people out there in the same situation, and there are plenty of people out there looking at websites that are a heck of a lot more embarrassing than my extracurricular hobbies. Maybe making our personal lives more accessible would show us all that we're not that different when you turn out the lights, and it would expand the boundaries of what we consider acceptable about ourselves and each other. And it might even raise some self-esteem.

Pattie Gillett
True Believer
posted 08-27-2001 11:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pattie Gillett   Click Here to Email Pattie Gillett     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In addition to the need for more tolerance and open-mindedness, I believe that another obstacle to Brin's proposed transparency is the misunderstanding that most people have about what information is already accessible about them. Sure, there are some conspiracy theorists who believes that some government agency has a tracking device on them but the true hoarders of personal information are American marketers.

One woman I know was adamant about not answering the income question on the 2000 Census because she felt "that was her business" (I guess she forgot that she had given the government that information in April) but she was pleased that the four women's magazines she subscribed to kept her informed about products she might like to buy. Of course, how else would the publishers know how to market to her if they didn't have a pretty good idea about how much she made? This is information they had bought from her supermarket chain, her credit card company's her mortgage company, or just about anyone else she did business with. This is reality and far too few people realize it. Is it dangerous? Probably not, since most of the data is aggregated by age, sex, or zip code. Most companies that do this type of research would rather know whether or not the typical 25-year old woman living in a given area would be inclined to buy peach lip-gloss than if Pattie Gillett would buy peach lip-gloss. (For the record, I wouldn't).

As a marketer in financial services (and having spent a year in market research) I am torn on this issue. I fear transparency because of the potential that criminal acts can wreak on one's financial future. There is also the potential discrimination problem that Dave mentioned. However, I do think that people need to put a little more thought into the information they hide and the information they will readily part with.

Frankly, we appear to be moving towards a time where someone may be able to justify demanding more and more personal information from us. Many employers already run credit checks on potential employees arguing that this cuts down on employee theft. Insurance companies use credit ratings to set rates because they say there is a correlation between low credit scores and reckless driving. If this trend continues, I see myself moving more towards Brin's camp because at some point the system should have to bend the other way.

[This message has been edited by Pattie Gillett (edited 08-28-2001).]

Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 09-04-2001 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pattie Gillett:

I fear transparency because of the potential that criminal acts can wreak on one's financial future.


Totally off the top of my head, but I wonder if transparency might also be a solution to this problem? Not that I'm saying we should all be able to poke around in each other's bank accounts, because I don't think that's what Brin really means here, but if we had real transparency, such that we could see the information gathered about us as easily as others gather that info, isn't it possible that we'd be tipped off to things like identity theft sooner?

Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
posted 09-21-2001 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Thomer   Click Here to Email Dave Thomer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wanted to give this one a bump, since information issues are likely to take on increased importance in the coming months.

Earl Green
True Believer
posted 04-23-2003 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Earl Green   Click Here to Email Earl Green     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thought I'd re-bump this one because of the ACLU push to get the Department Of Homeland Security's "no-fly list" out into the open. Anyone have any thoughts on this? The fact that Homeland Security doesn't seem to be forthcoming with (a) the criteria that lands people on that list, or (b) what they must do to get off of the list, makes me a bit nervous.

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