|
Author
|
Topic: Costs of Conscience (June 2001)
|
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 06-11-2001 01:25 AM
   
This month's Life in Practice update is now online. |
Pattie Gillett
True Believer
|
posted 06-11-2001 01:27 AM
No man is an island. I can't live my life in a bubble. Insert you own cliché here. The fact is, global economy or not, no human can realistically assume to live a life in which the choices they make do not have a negative effect on other people, animals, or the environment. The best you can hope for is that the good you do will minimize the ill effects and that, hopefully, you can lead by example and multiply that good. Dave, perhaps a good comparison to your investing dilemma would be the extremely difficult vegan lifestyle. No offense meant to those who chose to do this but even they must admit that a lifestyle that does absolutely no harm to any animal life is at best tricky and at worst a slippery slope. Sure, you can ask a waiter if the soup is made with chicken stock but, as many vegans I've known have found out, it becomes hard to decide whether you draw the line at leather, wool, or even honey. Do you use synthetic fabrics to spare animal hides even if manufacturing them may do more harm to the environment? And down we go. It is just as much as a slippery slope when choosing a company to invest in or even work for. Beyond a company's balance sheet (which few neophyte investors even look at), there are the hiring practices, labor relations, investments, subsidiaries, and joint ventures to consider. Not far from our apartment in Northeast Philadelphia sits a fairly large Nabisco plant. One day a manager from the plant mentioned to me that despite all the perks of working there - great benefits, great pay, great perks (free cookies - I swear) - he still feels uneasy about Nabisco's parent, RJR, a giant in the tobacco industry. I can certainly sympathize with him. You have a great job that allows you to educate your children and live a decent life. Do you lose sleep because your employer makes cookies and cigarettes? No person is perfect and certainly no corporate entity can ever hope to claim sainthood. But I think the movement towards socially conscious investing is a step in the right direction because is dangles the carrot of good PR in front of companies that may otherwise make less than stellar choices. Even though Dave's foray into PR was brief, I'm sure he will agree that good PR is hard to find and expensive to keep. Bad PR is expensive, too and nearly impossible to get rid of.
[This message has been edited by Pattie Gillett (edited 07-05-2001).] |
Kevin Ott
True Believer
|
posted 06-13-2001 01:09 AM
I interviewed at a weekly in Delaware, and during lunch (I had a tuna hoagie), the editor told me that an ex-boyfriend of his was a chef at a vegetarian restaurant, and used to sneak chicken stock into recipes, partially to make them taste better and partially because he was an SOB.The point is that there are always gonna be some things that are out of your control, so to some extent you just have to roll with the proverbial punches and do whatever you can to stay morally and ethically afloat. So I agree with Dave and Pattie that You Can Only Do So Much, and it's generally a principle I live by. But there's more, I think. I just spent a very cool weekend with a bunch of activist friends of mine that seem to live a lot more simply than I do, and devote more of their lives to Doing Good (one of them restores trails in Central Park, two more help find homes for Latin American immigrants, another catalogs wildlife in the Chesapeake Bay), and seem to be really happy doing it. It makes me wonder if I'm doing enough, and it makes me kind of uncomfortable with the way I sometimes live my life. But it's a good discomfort, and sometimes it leads me to make changes in my lifestyle. |
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 06-13-2001 01:22 AM
Yeah, it's hard to know exactly how much the So Much that You Can Only Do is, isn't it? In terms of doing things, I think it's pretty easy to get a sense of your limits, how much energy you have, and how thin you can spread yourself. But when it comes to what kinds of sacrifices you can make, that's a whole heck of a lot tougher. That 'how much do I really need' question keeps kicking in. I mean, do I need and MP3 player? No. But it makes me happy. Should I try and orient myself in a way that listening to music on the bus isn't something that makes me happy? Maybe. But again, how much good will that serve? Should I refuse to buy Kraft products because it gives money to Phillip Morris? In a perfect world, yeah, probably, I would. But there's a cost/benefit analysis at work here, to the point that the effort can probably be spent more productively elsehwere. |
Kevin Ott
True Believer
|
posted 06-13-2001 01:27 AM
Maybe the moral of the story is that if you devote a substantial portion of your life to Doing Good, you don't need to worry about these questions, since so much of your mind is caught up in Doing Good that you have a reasonably good excuse for not thinking about how buying Velveeta might provide cash for more Philip Morris market research targeting, I don't know, pregnant woman and the mentally retarded. |
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 06-13-2001 01:33 AM
I can certainly live with that. (Now where's the address for that tobacco sector mutual fund . . .  ) |
slgorman
One of the Regulars
|
posted 07-02-2001 06:54 PM
quote:
...you have a reasonably good excuse for not thinking about how buying Velveeta might provide cash for more Philip Morris market research targeting...
First off, you all know Velveeta is a "processed cheese-food product," right? I'm just saying....  It's hard to balance using modern technology, our relative wealth (as a nation), and convience against doing the right thing. I know lots of people who spend a good portion of their energy avoid meat, bio-engineered food, and so on. I, personally, don't always have the time or inclination. But I always buy Fair Trade coffee when it's my turn to chip into the work coffee-pool. I have a mental list of companies I tend to avoid like the plague if at all possible. It's perhaps only a gesture, but I think that over time the gestures add up and can make a difference. For years I worked at not-for-profit hospitals, and in some ways that felt good. At least the bottom line wasn't the only concern, and the ability to work with the underprivilegded and indigent can be enlightening and rewarding (at times). Currently I work for a for-profit hospital system, but they operate one of only two trauma centers in the region. I still get tons of patients without insurance or homes. Perhaps this is just a way I can justify working for this company, but the work is the same at my level. Where is Freud when you need him? I would love to grow my own organic food, churn my own butter, spin my own cloth; but I've got a job and don't have the time or skills to do these things. So I do my best to support ideas and concepts I believe in while avoiding corporations I don't share beliefs with. It doesn't always work. The thing that scares me more is the fact that some people don't even know what they might want to avoid or support, or better yet, don't care. |
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 08-30-2001 11:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by slgorman:It's hard to balance using modern technology, our relative wealth (as a nation), and convience against doing the right thing.
Yeah, it can be hard to be on my high horse when I probably have more computing power under my desk than Mission Control during Project Apollo. quote:
I know lots of people who spend a good portion of their energy avoid meat, bio-engineered food, and so on.
Man, I know I should, but a life without cheesesteaks is not a life worth living as far a I'm concerned . . . quote:
For years I worked at not-for-profit hospitals, and in some ways that felt good. At least the bottom line wasn't the only concern, and the ability to work with the underprivilegded and indigent can be enlightening and rewarding (at times). Currently I work for a for-profit hospital system, but they operate one of only two trauma centers in the region. I still get tons of patients without insurance or homes. Perhaps this is just a way I can justify working for this company, but the work is the same at my level.
And you know what, not-for-profits can be just as cold and calculating as for-profit businesses. Sometimes I think even more so. If you're still helping people, that's the important thing. quote:
The thing that scares me more is the fact that some people don't even know what they might want to avoid or support, or better yet, don't care.
Couldn't have said it better myself. |
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 02-04-2002 11:36 PM
I wanted to bring this thread up again because, in light of the Enron brouhaha, I wonder how much complicity we have in situations like this. We seem to want a world with fewer checks, fewer regulations, and so on, and those of us who may have put money in the market over the last few years may have, in a very small part, encouraged the boost-the-stock-price-at-all-costs mentality of corporate America. Obviously I'm not saying we're to blame, but I'm wondering what shifts in our attitudes might be appropriate at this point in time. |
Pattie Gillett
True Believer
|
posted 02-06-2002 02:37 PM
As I write this, there's another scandal brewing over in Ireland that threatens to de-stablize global markets even more (and you thought it wasn't possible).This observation may be slightly OT but it seems like the bigger the period of economic boom, the larger the fraud shakeouts that occur when the economy busts. I guess it's just too easy to hide shady dealings when everyones spending and distracted by weekly pizza parties. Once the bust happens and you have to pore over the books (deciding how many jobs to cut and locations to clothes) you find all the crap. |
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 08-01-2002 10:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pattie Gillett:This observation may be slightly OT but it seems like the bigger the period of economic boom, the larger the fraud shakeouts that occur when the economy busts.
Good call there. Any thoughts on next week's lottery numbers? |
Pattie Gillett
True Believer
|
posted 08-02-2002 01:22 PM
Well, those who don't learn from history blah blah blah . . .Of course, those who do learn from history tend to be liberal arts majors and don't head major coporations anyway! |
slgorman
One of the Regulars
|
posted 08-04-2002 02:46 PM
quote:
Of course, those who do learn from history tend to be liberal arts majors and don't head major coporations anyway!
Hee hee hee. Good one! |
Kevin Ott
True Believer
|
posted 08-09-2002 10:29 PM
quote:
We seem to want a world with fewer checks, fewer regulations, and so on, and those of us who may have put money in the market over the last few years may have, in a very small part, encouraged the boost-the-stock-price-at-all-costs mentality of corporate America.
I think the key here is "very small part." It's true, and it adds up, but I'm sure -- or, maybe, I just like to think -- that most investors, when asked whether the kinds of shady business practices that have been enjoying the spotlight lately are a good idea, would shake their heads no. Buying stock doesn't necessitate complicity in unethical practices that were committed in order to make the stock rise; that's confusing the victim with the perpetrator. Accountants fudge so the prospectus looks good, and if the prospectus doesn't look good, then an investor will dump the stock and go somewhere more lucrative. And perhaps sometimes, in that process, the investors had the opportunity to look the other way, or commit some similar sin of omission, but that doesn't mean they -- and we -- can't be angry with those that lied. |
Dave Thomer
Guardian of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy
|
posted 08-09-2002 11:29 PM
What I'm thinking is, I've run across people who get angry when you question a company's finances or prospects, because such negativity drives down the stock price and that's somehow considered un-American. We want less regulation because it will supposedly cut less into the bottom line, we want less criticism because we want everyone to believe. Sure, we want things to be fair and just, but we don't way to pay any cost to ensure that they are.Again, I'm not chalking it up as a leading cause or anything. Just something we may want to think about the next time, say, the Senate decides to restructure banking regulation. | |
This Is Not News Forums
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
