Comments on: You Pays Your Taxes, You Take Your Chances http://www.notnews.org/policy/you-pays-your-taxes-you-take-your-chances.html Philosophy, public affairs and pop culture. Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:20:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Dave Thomer http://www.notnews.org/policy/you-pays-your-taxes-you-take-your-chances.html#comment-56 Dave Thomer Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:36:44 +0000 http://www.notnews.org/?p=70#comment-56 Thanks for stopping by, Goss. I do think there's a little bit of the cart going before the horse in your proposal. If we had an informed, deliberative electorate, we'd be holding our democratically-elected officials much more accountable and a large part of the disconnect you cite would fade away. And <em>without</em> such a system, democratic taxation would get gamed and perverted just like everything else. (Who would have the authority to control deficit spending? Would a percentage of all taxes be reserved to pay interest charges? How do we prevent the government from setting up subsidy programs that would funnel tax dollars right back to the people that contribute them?) I'm with you on the optimism. You can't be a Deweyan democrat without a healthy dose. And in the interest of not shutting my mind off completely to your idea, I was thinking of Bruce Ackerman and Co.'s <a href="http://www.citsov.org/" rel="nofollow">Citzen Sovereignty</a> site. Their Voting with Dollars proposal treats campaign finance the way you're considering treating taxes, with one difference I think is critical. Their idea is that we should set up a pool for public financing of elections, and give every citizen the right to secretly allocate some small portion of it. By equalizing the amount over which each citizen has control, the system alleviates the disproportionate-control problem. (It doesn't eliminate it entirely, because people can contribute over and above the allocated amount.) I wonder if their system could be modified to meet your goals. Thanks for stopping by, Goss. I do think there’s a little bit of the cart going before the horse in your proposal. If we had an informed, deliberative electorate, we’d be holding our democratically-elected officials much more accountable and a large part of the disconnect you cite would fade away. And without such a system, democratic taxation would get gamed and perverted just like everything else. (Who would have the authority to control deficit spending? Would a percentage of all taxes be reserved to pay interest charges? How do we prevent the government from setting up subsidy programs that would funnel tax dollars right back to the people that contribute them?)

I’m with you on the optimism. You can’t be a Deweyan democrat without a healthy dose.

And in the interest of not shutting my mind off completely to your idea, I was thinking of Bruce Ackerman and Co.’s Citzen Sovereignty site. Their Voting with Dollars proposal treats campaign finance the way you’re considering treating taxes, with one difference I think is critical. Their idea is that we should set up a pool for public financing of elections, and give every citizen the right to secretly allocate some small portion of it. By equalizing the amount over which each citizen has control, the system alleviates the disproportionate-control problem. (It doesn’t eliminate it entirely, because people can contribute over and above the allocated amount.) I wonder if their system could be modified to meet your goals.

]]> By: Skymarshall Goss http://www.notnews.org/policy/you-pays-your-taxes-you-take-your-chances.html#comment-55 Skymarshall Goss Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:52:58 +0000 http://www.notnews.org/?p=70#comment-55 Hey Dave, I completely agree that an 'institutional framework to help citizens understand the relevant issues' is a necessary part of the proposed plan. Again, I don't see this as a case against, but as acknowledgement of one of the many issues that would need to be dealt with in the formation of the system. At the moment, the american citizen is getting less from his tax dollar than ever before. Less than those from other developed nations. Corporate welfare and manipulation of the people against the government is at such a perverse level that when we pay our taxes, they are not seen as our contribution to the health of the republic, but as a theft from our family's prosperity, to be given on a whim to whichever lobbyist is able to stick his fork in it. Grover Norquist's klan of government stranglers deride government every moment of every day, and simultaneously use it to gain access to our money. Now, you know I'm not naive enough to miss the seeming innocence of my proposal. But I admit without shame to my optimistic belief that an overhaul of the tax system; one in which mr. and mrs. america could have more control in shaping the budgets, might be made to work more effectively than the deregulated mess that we've inherited. At any rate, thanks again for replying. Please have a Great New Year. Hey Dave,

I completely agree that an ‘institutional framework to help citizens understand the relevant issues’ is a necessary part of the proposed plan.

Again, I don’t see this as a case against, but as acknowledgement of one of the many issues that would need to be dealt with in the formation of the system.

At the moment, the american citizen is getting less from his tax dollar than ever before. Less than those from other developed nations.

Corporate welfare and manipulation of the people against the government is at such a perverse level that when we pay our taxes, they are not seen as our contribution to the health of the republic, but as a theft from our family’s prosperity, to be given on a whim to whichever lobbyist is able to stick his fork in it.

Grover Norquist’s klan of government stranglers deride government every moment of every day, and simultaneously use it to gain access to our money.

Now, you know I’m not naive enough to miss the seeming innocence of my proposal. But I admit without shame to my optimistic belief that an overhaul of the tax system; one in which mr. and mrs. america could have more control in shaping the budgets, might be made to work more effectively than the deregulated mess that we’ve inherited.

At any rate, thanks again for replying. Please have a Great New Year.

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