Comments on: A Fringe of Inquiry http://www.notnews.org/education/a-fringe-of-inquiry/ Philosophy, public affairs and pop culture. Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:35:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Dave Thomer http://www.notnews.org/education/a-fringe-of-inquiry/#comment-17307 Dave Thomer Thu, 13 Oct 2011 22:16:58 +0000 http://www.notnews.org/?p=932#comment-17307 Sometimes the long way is exactly what you suggest - a refusal to acknowledge that things are different and, in some ways, easier. Take websites that will help you create properly formatted bibliographic citations. I haven't used them much, but from what I've seen, they're awesome. I would never want to tell someone that they have to lug around a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style in order to figure out the proper way to cite a paper. But sometimes the long way is like making your own pizza dough and sauce from scratch instead of heating up a frozen pizza or ordering from the place around the corner. In both cases, you have pizza at the end. But doing it the long way, you see how the pieces fit together. You see how you might need less water in the dough on a more humid day. You figure out that you really do like some extra oregano in the sauce before you put the cheese on. When that pizza comes out of the oven, it's yours in a way the frozen pizza never could be. But back to your point, I don't bake my own sandwich rolls. That's more time and effort than I have to give for something that I can walk around the corner and buy. So part of what I'm trying to figure out is the difference between the pizza and the rolls. Which long ways offer me a useful, deeper understanding? And which long ways are just going to leave me tired, frustrated, and probably covered in flour? And of course there's never one answer that you can give and be done with it. Thanks for returning the favor. I appreciate the dialogue. Dave Sometimes the long way is exactly what you suggest – a refusal to acknowledge that things are different and, in some ways, easier. Take websites that will help you create properly formatted bibliographic citations. I haven’t used them much, but from what I’ve seen, they’re awesome. I would never want to tell someone that they have to lug around a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style in order to figure out the proper way to cite a paper.

But sometimes the long way is like making your own pizza dough and sauce from scratch instead of heating up a frozen pizza or ordering from the place around the corner. In both cases, you have pizza at the end. But doing it the long way, you see how the pieces fit together. You see how you might need less water in the dough on a more humid day. You figure out that you really do like some extra oregano in the sauce before you put the cheese on. When that pizza comes out of the oven, it’s yours in a way the frozen pizza never could be.

But back to your point, I don’t bake my own sandwich rolls. That’s more time and effort than I have to give for something that I can walk around the corner and buy. So part of what I’m trying to figure out is the difference between the pizza and the rolls. Which long ways offer me a useful, deeper understanding? And which long ways are just going to leave me tired, frustrated, and probably covered in flour? And of course there’s never one answer that you can give and be done with it.

Thanks for returning the favor. I appreciate the dialogue.

Dave

]]> By: Zac Chase http://www.notnews.org/education/a-fringe-of-inquiry/#comment-17301 Zac Chase Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:45:08 +0000 http://www.notnews.org/?p=932#comment-17301 Dave, I like what you say here and it reminds me of a quotation from Ted Sizer, "The best we educational planners can do is to create the conditions for teachers and students to flourish and get out of their way." Throwing the fringe of anything into anything is rarely going to have the effects we hope for. Structuring and building toward those places makes the difference. It's not quite scaffolding. It's more laying the brick road between ideas. As for there being something to say for doing things the long way, I want to know what that is. The long way was the long way because we didn't have a shorter way. That's okay. I could board a steamer for a trip to Europe, but I'm not going to. I'm going to get on a jet and fly there. What if we think of it differently? What if we think of the modern conveniences as giving our students access to the new long ways? Saying, "You don't have to struggle with these pieces because I want you to be able to struggle with these more complicated pieces." Most of the time when I hear or make the argument for going the long way 'round, it's rooted in a feeling of "well, I had to learn it this way, so they should too, clearly it's the way to become X." I don't think it is. I think we became X through walking that path, but that path is grown over, folded up or otherwise indisposed. You've made me think. Thanks for doing that. - Zac Dave,

I like what you say here and it reminds me of a quotation from Ted Sizer, “The best we educational planners can do is to create the conditions for teachers and students to flourish and get out of their way.”

Throwing the fringe of anything into anything is rarely going to have the effects we hope for. Structuring and building toward those places makes the difference. It’s not quite scaffolding. It’s more laying the brick road between ideas.

As for there being something to say for doing things the long way, I want to know what that is. The long way was the long way because we didn’t have a shorter way. That’s okay. I could board a steamer for a trip to Europe, but I’m not going to. I’m going to get on a jet and fly there. What if we think of it differently? What if we think of the modern conveniences as giving our students access to the new long ways? Saying, “You don’t have to struggle with these pieces because I want you to be able to struggle with these more complicated pieces.”

Most of the time when I hear or make the argument for going the long way ’round, it’s rooted in a feeling of “well, I had to learn it this way, so they should too, clearly it’s the way to become X.” I don’t think it is. I think we became X through walking that path, but that path is grown over, folded up or otherwise indisposed.

You’ve made me think.

Thanks for doing that.

- Zac

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